Posts by Juan Viejo2

78

Why do JWs have this* on their FB pages now?

by Kudra in

.

Said from the platform: "You are not surviving Armaggedon if you are spiritually weak"

by Daniel1555 in

today i was at the meeting (i go there about once a month now).

in the service meeting they had a part where they interviewed the secretary of the congregation.. so one question was: "why are the service reports so important?".

our secretary explained that the reports are important, because the elders can see, who is spiritually weak.

Juan Viejo2

At least part of what the speaker said was true:

"What he spew out next just left me speechless. He literally said looking to the audience:

"You are not surviving Armaggedon (sp)...!"

You will not survive Armageddon for two reasons, but not because you "are spiritually weak."

1. There will never be an Armageddon as described by Jehovah's Witnesses or inferred by some biblical quotations.

and

2. None of us will survive. We are all going to die. Period. End of story.

So go ahead and be "spiritually weak." It won't make a damn bit of difference.

Sorry, but this bit of truth is coming to you from your friend, Juan Viejo.

15

Not willing to meet with Elders? DF?

by thedepressedsoul in

if a person says that they are not willing to meet with the elders or does not meet with them, will that get them df'ed?

there is a rumor about a person who has left the truth (went inactive) about being imoral.

they do not have the 2 person witness so they can't take actions because of this.

I was DF'd and I told the elders I was not coming to their meeting at the Kingdom Hall. I was falsely accused of cheating on my wife, and had already worked all of that out with her, but the gossips wouldn't let up - so they completely set me up and blindsided me. When they called me on the phone while I was at a JW friend's house, I told them to hold their meeting, but I was not coming. Never regretted my decision. Never once considered reinstatement. Never confessed to anything because I really had nothing to confess about. I was being accused by gossips who had been my friends.

When I look back I'm glad I did not buckle. Freedom is a wonderful thing to have.

JV

50

Convention Season-"Saving Good Seats" & Other Embarrassing Behavior

by Darth Fader The Sequel in

since it is the convention season (and i am not attending this year or ever again), and i have been seeing other posts about some of the goings on at the various ic's and rc's, i am reminded of some of the truly embarrassing behavior i have "witnessed" (pun intended) over my lifetime of being a jdub at the various conventions and assemblies.

probably the most disillusioning experience at a convention that i have ever had was one year when i volunteered to be an attendant.

all of the volunteers were asked to attend a special meeting a few months beforehand to get instructions for our duties as attendants.

Juan Viejo2

I attended one afternoon session of a district assembly in September 2012 at the State Fairgrounds arena in Salem, Oregon. It was the Saturday evening session the day they released the Sparlock DVD. I only went there to get a couple of copies. My wife still threatens me with castration or worse if I ever decide to go again. Summer Saturday afternoons are for wine coolers on our deck, not going to a JW convention...

But that aside, I did go that one time. I wore a dressy sport coat and dress slacks, but did not wear a tie nor did I have a badge. I figured the attendants would just consider me "one of the public responding to the invitation that local JWs left at my door without knocking and just sneaking away quietly." But I did get quite a few rather unfriendly stares as I worked my way inside the arena. I found a seat in the upper tier looking straight down at the floor of the arena and the stage. Really, I was very entertained just looking around watching JWs do what they do best.

Down on the main floor (I could see everyone seated down there) I watched as there was constant traffic. Teenagers going to the restroom with a friend or two, mothers going to the restroom with their babies. An occasional brother grabbing an unruly child and hauling them outside for a stern talking-to or worse. It was very much like watching a trail of ants running in rows along the top of a curb.

Upon their return, these young people and mothers would have to work their way back down some rather long rows of folding chairs. If I remember right, there was one large section in the center and two half sections on each side with two aisles dividing the sections. The aisles were always busy with moving bodies - constant from the end of the first prayer until the arena emptied out.

I was up above the main area in a rather steep group of seats. This allowed me to look over the shoulders of the JWs sitting below me. I was shocked - shocked, I say! - to note that about half of those sitting up there were actually looking at their iPads, SmartPhones, and laptops. I noticed that quite a few had two or three screens open and they would switch back and forth whenever they sensed an attendant approaching or lurking behind them. They didn't seem to care if other R&F or strangers like me noticed what they were doing while the talks went on. I was actually glad to see that these folks were pretty normal when they had access to the Internet, even during an assembly session. Of course, several were in different stages of napping, reading other books, or quietly chatting with their family or friends. What I saw was not unexpected - I attended many assemblies and conventions when I was a youngster, but I was amazed at how brazen some of them were about what they were doing.

An interesting thing I also noticed was the hum-drum staccato way all the speakers sounded. Of course I was aware that they were reading a script and could not vary at all at any time - even when the situation might call for it. But I noticed that all of the sentences were about the same length. One sentence would end with a rise, and the next would end with a dip. Up, down - up, down - up, down. Every speaker sounded the same way. If there was a sentence that required emphasis, all the speaker would do is raise his voice slightly and end the sentence or paragraph with an upbeat. It was quite hypnotizing. Even the guests (local pioneers or elders) who would come up and share their personal stories sounded like they were pre-recorded and were only standing there moving their lips. Very sleep inducing for sure.

But back to the subject at hand, but with a bit of a twist. Now what I am about to share is not intended to put down anyone because of their body shape or weight, so please hang on to your slings and arrows:

Heavy or wide people were clearly problematic no matter where they sat - unless they were in a row with easy ingress or egress. Fortunately, the seats on the floor of the arena were all folding chairs.

As I watched, it seemed that nearly every heavy or large sister who was sitting in the middle of a row HAD TO GO TO THE BATHROOM AT LEAST ONCE EVERY HOUR. Only teenaged girls were needier in that regard. So I would watch as these poor women would have to choose which way to exit. One time to the left, next time to the right, next time flip a coin. Everyone would have to stand up, slide their chairs back, pick up their purses or briefcases, and let the poor lady or older fellow get by. And of course, it would all repeat when the potty person came back to retake their seat. At first, it seemed that all the heavy-weights picked seats in the middle of the pack.

Ah, but then I realized that I was wrong. Many had camped out near the end of a row. As those in the middle needed to work their way to the aisle, poor sister or brother much-larger-than-average would have to struggle to get up and then actually move out into the aisle to let those exiting get by. This was often a major undertaking, in some cases 2 minutes or longer. Then it the same process would be repeated. In almost every case, the large person on the end would have to maneuver in and out of the aisle.

As I sat there I kept thinking, "Why do they put the folding chairs so close to the rows ahead? Why not add a couple of feet between them? But no, the knees of the those sitting in each row, except for the first and last (they could slide their seats back) were pushed so close that almost everyone in the row would have to stand up to let someone out. And there wasn't enough room for heavy people to "suck it in" so that someone could squeeze by them.

So during the whole afternoon session, as I was being put to sleep by the speakers, I was also mesmerized by the almost constant movement - like rows of piano keys scrolling up and down - as I looked at the arena floor. And this movement was constant throughout the entire session, even during the songs and the prayers.

I realized all of this movement had less to do with the need to relieve or replenish bodily fluids. It was from boredom. Most people can sit through a 3-hour movie without getting up and going to the bathroom, but not a convention session. OK, even I have to go sometimes during a movie - if I just finished off an extra large Diet Coke. But watching the movement during a convention session gives "bathroom breaks" a whole new definition in terms of our modern culture.

I found the whole thing very entertaining and caught it all (I never once left my seat for a bathroom break). Next time I go (if my wife is out of town), I will take my camera glasses and film about 20 minutes of the session and then overlay it on a graphic of an ant hill, and speed it up by about 50%. If you watch movies of the old "International Conventions" from the 1950s and 60s you will see that same movement going on while the sessions are going on. Some things never change. It's a scientific fact: Boredom makes one have to go to the bathroom.

JV

26

Jim Penton's beloved wife Marilyn died today.

by AndersonsInfo in

jw
friends

her suffering is finally over.

marilyn has been battling cancer for about three years and at times it looked like she would win.

but in the last few months the cancer spread.

Juan Viejo2

Like many of you, Jim Penton's book was the first "apostate" history book I ever read about the JWs. I actually found it in a local Barnes & Noble in Orange County, CA. I'd heard his wife was ill, but did not realize how serious she was.

Jim, if you read this, just realize how many of us out there were helped to find the real truth about the Watchtower and its history thanks to you and the support of your dear wife. Thank you, thank you, thank you.

John Hoyle (Oregon, USA)

28

Announcement to print from JW.ORG in service meeting

by suavojr in

jw
friends

yes, you read that correctly.

last night during the service meeting, the cobe gave an announcement that we should start printing or using jw.org for any special literature such as the daily text, the yearly calendar, etc... he also mentioned to please cancel any orders of the wt and awake on cds because no one is picking them up and they are piling up.. .

my question is, where did this elder get this info from?

Juan Viejo2

The real "doctrinal" issue before the Watchtower at the moment is whether Jehovah prefers the "dot" on the top right, or the bottom left. Apparently he has not revealed the truth on this pressing issue.

JW.

org

or.............

JW

.org

??????

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4TAtRCJIqnk

JV

26

Shouldn't the WTBTS have more than 7 million followers after 140 years of preaching?

by RULES & REGULATIONS in

after 140 years of preaching and millions of books, magazines, and tracts, all the wtbts has to show is a measly 7 million members.

the mormons, baptists, pentecostals and many other religions have more members without the preaching work.. in your opinion, is 7 million members way too many for all the odd beliefs, doctrines and practices ?

or, should be more members since they have had over 140 years of being in the religion business?.

Juan Viejo2

Part of the problem is that for every new convert they might get from the door to door work or from family preaching, they lose one to the DA or DF policies.

It has been true that at least 75% of new JWs are JW children being baptized. Some Kingdom Halls have over 25% of their membership consisting of teenagers between 12 and 19. The problem for the WT is that those are the very ones who will drift away or be DF'd as soon as they leave home. The good news is that they are typically replaced by more kids attaining the age of 12 or more. You still see a lot of 7, 8, and 9 year olds being baptized and they go on the publisher roles as soon as they do.

An adult convert, other than a non-JW spouse who finally converts or a close relative like siblings who move in with JWs due to financial or family issues, is still quite rare. I asked a DFd fellow who had been a CBE until his leaving how many converts he had actually met. He served in two KHs and he told me that both had no adult converts in recent memory and definitely none while he was serving there. He mentioned that the last major conversion he heard about was when the male member of a family raised as Mennonites and then shunned by their community converted to JW (cult ----> cult) and brought his whole family of eight into the the KH. They all got baptized within a year, so the congregation showed a +10 growth one year when they were combined with the +12 year olds who were already attending.

Think about it. An annual growth of 1 or 2% should be expected just from children and close relative conversions. Conversions due to Memorial invitations or local convention walk-ins are now miniscule compared to the 1950s and 60s when these were relatively common. I remember that quite a few, escpecially in the New York, San Francisco, and St. Louis areas became converts because of the temporary housing work (asking the public to allow the brothers to rent spare rooms during a convention). They would see the JWs come visit for 5 to 8 days and notice that they were well-behaved and otherwise good citizens - and would become interested from that experience. I don't know if that work is still a part of convention prep - or if that has been replaced by using current JWs and hotel discount programs. Some one will have to up date me on that. But if you fit 50,000 families and individuals into a large city renting rooms from the public, there has to be some conversions related to that.

What I find amazing is that more DFing seems to happen in smaller congregations ( < 100 baptized members) than larger ones (> 125). A nearby congregation DF'd a MS a couple years back and his whole family (wife, sister-in-law, and 5 minor children) were all out within months. Eight people in a small congregation suddenly disappear forever and the KH looks pretty empty on a Thursday night.

JV

152

Something Big is Coming...

by notsurewheretogo in

the annual meeting of the governing body of jehovah's witnesses will be in october 2014.. .. in november 2013, just after the last one they published this now famous statement in the 15th of november 2013 watchtower page 16 paragraph 17 says:.

"at that time, the lifesaving direction that we receive from jehovahs organization may not appear practical from a human standpoint.

all of us must be ready to obey any instructions we may receive, whether these appear sound from a strategic or human standpoint or not.".

Juan Viejo2

Yes, expect changes in both blood and pedophile policies, but probably seemingly quite moderate and maybe undecipherable to the average JW. Also, potential major corporate name change for one of the major entities (likely the NY corp.)

Look for more flexibility and less discipline connected with blood transfusions, and tighter controls and more cooperation with law enforcement when dealing with pedophiles. Again, the changes may appear so minor as to be considered uneventful and of no particular interest, but looks like that will be where change is most likely. They will never admit that they are finally making changes due to outside pressures, but rather because Jehovah told them that it is now his will that they change.

Wonder if Jehovah has a booming voice, like in the movies? Or maybe a little squeaky voice like a cartoon mouse. And just which one of the GB members gets to answer the Jehovah phone? And when does he speak to them? When they are all gathered around the big table in the conference room, or when each of them is sitting on the toilet taking a dump? Inquiring people want to know...

JV

10

New financial arrangement is about ownership of the Kingdom Halls and Assembly Halls

by fedup in

we may believe that the wt is having financial problems because of the sell-off that has been happening lately.

however, i think the opposite.

i believe the gb has realized that in today's world the money is in the properties that the sheepies have already paid or are paying for.

Juan Viejo2

Menlo Park (CA, USA) Kingdom Hall near San Francisco has an estimated worth of $2.5 Million. However, considering its location right near a major thoroughfare and across from a VA hospital that is expanding, you can figure it might be worth another $1 Million by 2015/16. That KH was the subject of a major property snatch by the WT HQ in 2011-2013. It is just one of dozens more in California alone that are in the same category.

JV

74

They continue to drop like flies

by suavojr in

jw
friends

yes, the jws continue to bleed their young ones, so far in my local kh 3 were dfd, one girl just turned 18 this month and packed her bags and said goodbye to the cult and her cultish parents, another young 18 year old man decided to have a non-jw girlfriend and decided to stop attending and is no longer a witness.

they continue to leave and wt leaders dont give a damn.

they dont do anything to help kids be successful and live a healthy life.. .

Juan Viejo2

When I came across this thread, I had to stop for a moment and read through it again. Over the past weekend I posted an article on WatchtowerWatch.com that touched on this very subject.

I'd spoken to one of my contacts earlier last week. He has been a JW for most of his adult life and has been an elder for many years. He stays in, as he says, "mostly for entertainment," but also because his wife does not want to make their break until after her mother passes - which should be relatively soon. He told me, "As soon as the old lady is gone, so will we be. We may not even say good-bye, just stop going and let everyone wonder what happened to us. It will be interesting to see how long it takes before someone at the Kingdom Hall actually calls and asks, 'Where are you guys?'"

It was our conversation that led me to write the aforementioned article: http://watchtowerwatch.com/blog/why-are-you-still-a-jehovahs-witness

Anyway, as I was reading the comments by BU2B, doinmypart, and rjharris, I kept thinking - geez, I wonder if any of them read my article? We are all on the same page. My contact told me that in his circuit in the Pacific Northwest congregations are losing an average of 5-6 publishers over 18 every six months. He told me that most of the elders are getting nervous, thinking the CO is going to hold them personally responsible. One issue that comes up in almost every discussion connected with a judicial committee meeting is "if we DF this person, that means we will lose another publisher. Anyone know of any new studies that are about to get baptized to replace this loss?"

He also told me that you can see the exhaustion of the elders as they try to keep things together. He said one good thing coming out of these losses is that elder bodies may realize that they will need to take a more accomodating attitude toward some of their flock, especially those who are just asking questions, but have not committed any "sins" - especially those not involving porneia. Problem is that several young people brought before the committee recently have taken the attitude, "do what you gotta do, I don't give a shit." His point is that when they are willing to verbalize their contempt, then you've probably already lost them - maybe not this week, but in a few months they will be gone on their own.

He told me that in one congregation an elder was demoted back to MS - because he acted "like an "f-ing Nazi." He said the CO made a special trip to the KH just to give this one elder a dressing down, "and it began almost before they got inside the conference room."

My contact agrees with sir82. The Watchtower may hope to have a hard core group of JWs who they know will (1) never leave, no matter what, and (2) keep sending money and doing what they are told, because (3) they want to have a home just to exert their authority over others.

JV